Mental Health: Getting Unstuck - Filters and Five Expectations to have from Professionals [Getting Help 2]
Welcome to the second episode of our Getting Help series on the I Thought I Was Over This podcast!
In part 2, Dr. Kimber dives into what you can expect from people who are helping you, what you should be looking for—and red flags to be aware of!—and how to find help and support that is the right fit for YOU, to help create the change that you are looking for.
Key moments include:
1:09 - Is it normal if your therapist forgets about your appointments and/or cancels the day before?
2:05 - How those of us with trauma can be vulnerable to people who haven’t done their own work.
2:44 - One of the best ways to find help or support (with an important caveat!).
6:28 - If looking for a therapist and you don’t have someone to guide you, some resources to try.
7:25 - What to look for in a therapist, healer, or someone you’re looking to help you create change.
17:38 - Five things you should expect from a professional you’re working with and getting support from.
Resources mentioned:
Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/
Betterhelp: https://www.betterhelp.com/
Maybe You Should Talk to Someone: A Therapist, Her Therapist, and Our Lives Revealed (by Lori Gottlieb)
Attachment book - Wired for Love: How Understanding Your Partner's Brain and Attachment Style Can Help You Defuse Conflict and Build a Secure Relationship (by Stan Tatkin, PsyD, MFT)
Attachment book - Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment and How It Can Help You Find—and Keep—Love (by Amir Levine, MD, and Rachel S.F. Heller, MA)
Please remember that this podcast is not a replacement for treatment by a healthcare or mental health professional. This content is created for education and entertainment purposes only.
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This transcript was created by A.I. — please forgive translation mistakes.
[00:00:00] Thank you for joining me in this series called getting help this episode, we're gonna dive into what can you expect from people who are helping you and what should you be looking? This episode is dedicate to my late great friend, Amy Jensen. I remember when I was in graduate school and she was getting therapy for the first time through her insurance.
[00:00:33] And she would ask me questions, like, is it normal that my therapist. Forgets about my appointment. So I show up and she's not there. Or can you tell me if it's normal that my therapist cancels the day before my therapy appointment. And I just remember thinking run for the Hills. This is terrible. Why would you try to get support from someone.
[00:01:03] Who is not available to you. She was like it's $5, but I still came back to say yes, but you get to feel rejected over and over or feel not important. I have no idea what was going on in this woman's life, but it's not yours to hold. I hope that this session for some of you, maybe who are trying things out, not knowing what to expect, maybe thinking this is the norm.
[00:01:34] Lots of us with trauma can be vulnerable to people who haven't done their own work and. We just accept it. We accept it as the best they can do, and it's good enough, even if we're paying for it. And so I wanna help you get unstuck. If you need that, wanna help you elevate your game for change. If I can inspire you to do that, maybe you're with somebody but you're not really seeing the change that you want. what do you do?
[00:02:05] I would say right off the bat, whatever you want help with, if you know someone who also has gotten that kind of help referrals are the best way to figure out someone Who has been successful at what you want change in. And I will use the caveat that if you have family members or close friends who are seeing some kind of mental health practitioner or anything where the relationship feels important I would encourage you to only ask for referrals for someone other than who they are seeing, because we have a lot of unconscious and conscious dynamics. A part of us may feel less important or if we have a friend and we have a close enough relationship that we can get in conflict.
[00:03:08] Well, if they're seeing the same therapist, I might start thinking, oh my goodness, did she talk about me in therapy? Like, what is my therapist gonna think? And it just becomes all of this internal noise when maybe what I need to go focus on is. The difficulty that I am having managing my stress at work, but suddenly I become pulled into this other scenario because of the relationship that my therapist might have with someone I know.
[00:03:39] I will say the exception might be when you're in a rural area, you have limited people that are there, though. If you wanna do telehealth, which many people are now open to doing because of COVID. You can find someone if you're looking for a licensed person in your state.
[00:03:58] Options have really broadened. And as someone who has transitioned to telehealth, yes, you can lose a bit, but can you. Still have a, a good relationship. Can you grow? Can you change? Can you feel felt by the person on the other end of it? And I will confidently say yes, it really, if you're doing telehealth, you gotta make sure you're in a place, in a safe space, in a nondistracted place.
[00:04:36] And. You can trust that your therapist is doing that too. If they're not that again is a sign now sometimes, I'm at my office. I can't always control the internet speed, of course technology is going to have its trials, but it shouldn't be the norm that we're engaged in.
[00:05:00] So rural or smaller places where there's less options, you might run into some of the dual relationships. You know, another situation is if you want to have a therapist in your native tongue, , sometimes the options become more limited depending on where you are.
[00:05:21] And if there's other people in your community who also want to be with someone who really understands the culture, the language, if you're getting into some really deep work, Your native language is kind of like coming home. And so it can be so helpful to speak and to process things in that.
[00:05:46] Just want you to be aware of what can happen when your circle gets smaller and a bunch of you are getting help by the same person. I think it's can be very messy. But sometimes. It has to happen. It's something to talk about and to work through.
[00:06:03] I think when you're looking for a therapist, if you don't have anyone who can guide you, I think psychology today is a good place to start.
[00:06:16] At least you can be confident that the people on there. Are paying their fee for marketing. Better health is also another place. There's lots of different modalities, it's not a perfect situation, but it's at least better than going to like the classified ads or looking on Yelp, which I don't recommend.
[00:06:41] I think Yelp reviews are tricky. There's lots of things that go into Yelp and it's not just straightforward. I think there's payment that can happen. I think there's, people doing false reviews, all of that. So take. For what you want.
[00:07:00] So what do you look for in a healer or a support person to help you change, to help you get unstuck?
[00:07:09] And I think the number one thing that you need to have happened for you is that you feel comfortable with this person. You feel safe, you feel seen, , if you don't feel safe or you feel less than, or, your shame is getting triggered. You're gonna be in fight or flight. Your trauma is gonna be re triggered.
[00:07:32] so. Give yourself permission. If it just doesn't feel like a good fit. That doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you doesn't mean that, you're copying out, hands down, regardless of training modality approach, it is all about feeling safe. And so if you feel safe, you are more likely to change and you are gonna get unstuck. Now, will that person. Be the person to kind of take you over the finish line. Well, time will tell you.
[00:08:07] Don't have to know that answer, but they will start you out. You will get some place, you will get unstuck and you will know what's next.
[00:08:20] What I tell people when I'm interviewing them finding a therapist or finding a coach of any kind, it's like buying a car.
[00:08:31] There are a lot of great cars out there and you could even have a favorite. In your mind, but then when you go and sit in the driver's seat, you realize, oh my goodness, the bucket seats, they're a little bit too low for me. Or maybe the seats are a little too high or it's a little more cramped inside than you imagined.
[00:08:56] And suddenly a great car is still a great car, but it's not a great car for you. And. As best you can have a phone conversation or have a zoom call, a brief one in my private practice, I offer a 15 minute brief consultation just so somebody can get a sense of who I am. And I can get a sense of someone else because I have certain criterion that needs to be met in order to be a client.
[00:09:31] Of mine. And that is simply because I can't be all to everyone. And so I need to make sure that I'm working in my sweet spot and the person who's coming in is able to get helped in the way , that person wants to be helped.
[00:09:48] So a phone call of any kind. Gives you kind of an initial sense of, Ooh, does my nervous system feel safe or not? And so I encourage you. You wanna get a feel if you can, of how someone is before you sign up and pay for a program or, you know, get involved.
[00:10:14] So I wanna go back to Amy just a little bit, because she really felt like it was okay. That this person canceled last minute or forgot her appointment. And I think it's fair to say that it was okay for her because of her own experiences growing up and what it was like to be a latchkey kid like myself.
[00:10:45] It's interesting. When we start watching our internal process, we can minimize how it feels that someone has forgotten an appointment or that I'm getting canceled on. When she's reaching out to me and saying, is this normal, that's a sign this doesn't feel good.
[00:11:05] If you find yourself kind of thinking that you're the problem or that you have too high of expectations or things like that. Those are some signs that you wanna get input from someone else.
[00:11:21] because it may actually be a red flag and you may need to break up with this helper and not take care of this person or fear that you're gonna hurt their feelings. You know, there's just so many empaths out there that get themselves in a helping situation. And then they end up being the help. . And so I wanna protect you from that.
[00:11:50] If I can, like you do not need to take care of or fear hurting the feelings of the person that is helping you and your pain, even if it's free, you still do not need to take care of the other person you matter, and you're showing up for yourself and you are self sabotaging, meaning you're not gonna get the results you want.
[00:12:19] If you are overly concerned about the person who is helping you. And so this gets to my last filter of looking at the person who's showing up before you is, how much do they talk about themselves? I mean, self disclosure, it's part of it, , if they're identifying, but when you start hearing about your helping professionals, personal life, like run for the Hills, really, like you're wasting your.
[00:12:55] They are not providing you the care that you need . When you're having to take on what the helper is putting on you. And of course, i, I don't want you to think of this rigidly, like, you know, I've been in this profession long enough, like. Sometimes honesty has to happen about what's going on in the therapist's life, but it should be the exception and it should make sense, like letting you know that they have a cancer diagnosis letting you know that they're moving or possibly that they have a sick child.
[00:13:41] There have been times where I would say I have a sick child at home and I need to keep my phone next to me to make sure she doesn't need any help because I'm the closest to home right now
[00:13:55] so, there's things of course that are gonna come up, but it should not be the norm. and if the person is looking at their phone, you should have the reason for that.
[00:14:10] I encourage you to look at your time with a therapist. As an education, you're taking a master class on yourself. Your question for yourself is who can teach you what you need to learn about your situation so that you can move through it and grow
[00:14:34] a great healer is worth every penny.
[00:14:38] When I was in graduate school, I had very little money. I, was living paycheck to paycheck. I remember saving for roller blades. It took me I think, eight months, but I went to therapy because at that time I was really suicidal and I could not trust myself that I wouldn't actually try to harm myself.
[00:15:10] So therapy became a very good investment for me. And I took out student loans to pay for it. Therapy literally saved my life, but also it's been worth every. because of the things that I learned about myself, the dynamics that I was able to change. The way I show up in the world is so different. So different from when I entered therapy to when I left even my appearance. I remember when I was getting ready to terminate and I had been with my therapist twice a week for eight years.
[00:16:03] And he said, do you remember when you first came in? Your body was so stiff the way you walked was so like, I need to get it right. Perfect. Efficient. You were so uptight. He said even your makeup was a lot heavier, and now you are just kind of a go with the flow person and. You don't wear a lot of makeup anymore.
[00:16:37] And the way you walk is a lot more fluid. And that really landed for me. I hadn't noticed that,
[00:16:48] Over the course of those years, something shifted inside. And the way of doing life was a lot. Easier. Not that the situations in my life were easy, but the way I showed up to my life was much, much easier. I was no longer in a fight or flight state. I was no longer feeling suicidal depression.
[00:17:15] When it came, I knew, oh, here's depression. It wasn't all encompassing. And sending me. A trauma space of wondering how long it was gonna be there. And what was I gonna do? And was I gonna, be able to function? What was all the noise that can happen when we fear that something will be happening in our life, that we know is a pattern for us when we get stressed.
[00:17:48] I think one of the great therapy books out there, maybe you should talk to someone by Lori gottlieb it is fantastic if you haven't read it, she has all these nuggets of kind of what therapy and transformation is. If you have never tried therapy, It might be a great book to explore.
[00:18:12] So I wanna give you six things that you should expect from the person who's gonna help you change, so the first thing that I would say is this person needs to be consistent.
[00:18:23] I've said this before, but I don't care who it is. They need to be consistently showing up and consistently available. So when we are born, we are born with. This attachment need inside of us. And depending on how our caregivers responded to us determined how we came to expect other people showing up for us or our own need to take care of things ourselves.
[00:18:58] And there's a lot of research, a lot of books out there. On attachment styles so depending on your attachment style from your childhood, That's gonna impact your expectations of the other person. So if you had a caregiver who was inconsistent, then you're not gonna think anything of somebody who is showing up inconsistently, because it's gonna feel normal. That's what you grew up with.
[00:19:29] Or if you.
[00:19:30] Had a caregiver who was more intrusive, whether it would be emotionally or relationally say changing diaper and angry or anxious, you know, these kind of things to a little nervous system can be overwhelming. And so you learn how to.
[00:19:55] Take care of the person who is taking care of you, whether that be being good, being quiet. And so you carry that with you into adulthood and as you go to get a therapist, if you don't know, Hey, we need to be meeting consistently. Or at least consistent to what I need in order to change, then you don't really think twice if like my friend Amy, there are all of these cancellations that are happening.
[00:20:33] I mean, even my husband, he was. At the time his masters of psychology program and his therapist who ended up retiring and becoming a spiritual director, I thought, thank goodness. But he would show up, my husband would show up and he would be like, Hey, there's this lecture going on? On campus? He was a affiliated with with the university and my husband would be like, sure, So he would go to his therapy session and I, I mean, you know, he wouldn't charge him, but instead of doing therapy, they would be going off to this lecture or that lecture.
[00:21:11] And I'm thinking, you know, as someone who's married to you, you, you have stuff to work on. You need to be going to therapy. But he wouldn't think anything of. And I'm like, there we go. Right. That internal kind of childhood pattern, not thinking anything of it, feeling pursued, feeling honored special, cuz he gets invited to go to the lecture, all of those things, but yet it's not helping create the change inside that he was looking for.
[00:21:47] Speaking about Dennis. One of the things that we were talking about the other day is Jordan Peterson, who I really enjoy. He's a philosopher, a theologian a psychotherapist. And he says, if you're gonna get your life in order, start with making your bed, make your bed. And to me, that's part of.
[00:22:11] If a therapist or a mental health supporter is out there wanting to help be a catalyst of change and a healer, they need to be consistent. That's starting with making your bed. He goes on to say, if you wanna change the world, well, then you make your bed and then you make your bedroom be. Because practical isn't enough.
[00:22:41] We are creatures who are creative, who love beauty, and that creates this sense of thriving and abundance inside of us. And so if the healer in your life, isn't able to follow through. With your agreed upon meeting times, or is always running late or has an excuse for everything that's interfering with you getting healed.
[00:23:10] Then I think you need to find someone else.
[00:23:15] I think the other thing, when you are signing up to be with someone and I think this is less with coaching because often when you sign up with a coach or many coaches, you know, you're signing up with a package. And so. Possibly, you know, what you're signing up for, but I think that fees and how often you're meeting and the structure of things should really be agreed upon by both of you, your nervous system needs to know what to expect.
[00:23:49] If you're every two weeks or whatnot, you will get in a rhythm, your mind, your body, your soul will all come to expect to be able to connect with this person every two weeks. And so you want to make sure that you can get in that rhythm because changing and digging up things and creating new habits, getting unstuck, I mean, It's all hard work in and of itself.
[00:24:15] And so you don't want to be managing this kind of background noise. You just wanna be showing up and able to go. It's like arriving on the airplane. I know I buckle. Seat belt. The flight attendants are gonna come out.
[00:24:31] Tell me what to do. You know, once you've done it, you know the rhythm, you know, the order of things. And you want to be with someone that the rhythm, the structure of your sessions feels like that you eventually know what to expect. You know what the fee structure is, you know, how often all of those things, it helps you relax and just fly, otherwise too many times it's a lot of background noise.
[00:25:07] I think is unnecessary. Another thing you can ask that might be of consideration is how often can the person raise their fees? How do they raise their fees? I think those are all reasonable questions and absolutely great to ask in my paperwork. I actually have it spelled out that I due to inflation can raise my fees once a year, but I say what the limit is that I could raise.
[00:25:36] It's all mapped out. So someone does not feel blindsided. I just wanna give you permission. No matter who you're working with to ask those kind of questions.
[00:25:48] That doesn't mean that your overly frugal or stingy or not honoring the other person, those are all things that you have a right to know will help, you know, especially if money is tight..
[00:26:03] One last thing about finances is I think it's normal to kind of move about the consumer world, thinking you get, what will you pay for? Meaning you have to pay a little bit more for quality. And in my experience in the helping world, that that's not always the case. I can hang a shingle out and say, Hey, I think I'm worth.
[00:26:28] $250 an hour and I can set my price at that. You can get some larger clinics where you have a head person who's licensed and then they. What are called psych assistance underneath.
[00:26:43] As people are getting their license, they need to get hours. I had to get hours. And so you are paying somebody who isn't licensed, but you're getting supervised. And so possibly you wanna see someone, but they're full, but they're like, Hey, you can see my psych assistant. And I supervise them. Well, I want you to know that you will benefit by that person having a certain person as a supervisor, but at the same time, for every 10 hours of clients, you only need one hour of supervision. So if you think that your, your PA, your psych assistant is gonna be talking about you and your case all the time.
[00:27:29] That, that just isn't it. So you wanna again, make sure you feel comfortable, but if you're coming in with a lot of trauma, a lot of complicated inner work that needs to get processed, then I just wanna encourage you. You probably need someone with a little more experience and, or a lot more experience, even if they've gone to.
[00:27:54] You know, classes, like, know what it is that you need in order to change and try to find that, do your best to try and find that. And don't wait so long to get help that you just have to take whoever's available. It's kind of like a great massage therapist, most great massage therapists, you are booked months out.
[00:28:18] And so when you are a first time client with them, you're like, ah, I think this is a good sign. I have to wait two months. I might go to someone else in the meantime, but it's a good sign. I think often it. Be that way too, with good helping professionals. You might have to wait, but you might find yourself in a crisis and unable to wait and therefore, you know, what's the best option for you to get support in the meantime.
[00:28:50] So you can get out of this crisis.
[00:28:53] Another thing that you want to explore, and I wanna give you permission to explore is where is your paperwork kept? You know, if you are seeing a licensed professional, I think most of us, have to be HIPAA compliant, which means we have to ensure that your information is confidential, that it is not public.
[00:29:17] It, you know, it's not leaking out anywhere and it's secure. All of that. So you have, we have a governing body that makes sure that you're protected, but when you see people who don't have an overseeing governing body. You wanna ask where do you store my information? Where does it go? And you can then decide given that information, how little, or how much you want to disclose in writing.
[00:29:47] You're always able to say things verbally, but the same thing, if someone's like, Hey, can I record this session? You wanna make sure why are they recording it? Who's gonna see it. How do they protect your information? Again? I just wanna give you permission. You have a right to know these things, be a detective and let it be known that if these are things that are important to you.
[00:30:14] Then they need to be securely kept, or you can make a choice not to see that person, and sometimes you don't even care about the information that you filled out. And so then it's not really a big deal about where it's stored or not. It's only if you're disclosing some really important information and you need to know where it's going.
[00:30:33] And I always would be protective about the financial stuff.
[00:30:38] So we have the structure of getting support. Is this person consistent? They should be upfront about the structure of your relationship, really being transparent about. How your information that you're filling out is being stored. Also wanna say your person shouldn't be falling asleep or looking at their phone by having it next to them that you shouldn't be hearing the dinging go off.
[00:31:04] You really need to feel seen. Feel like this person genuinely cares about your thoughts, your feelings. And , self disclosure on the part of your helper identification is it's not wrong. I'm not saying they shouldn't disclose anything. I'm saying you don't want to be feeling like you're carrying the burden of the person who is helping you.
[00:31:33] And so that's what you're kind of looking for some self disclosure. Obviously, you're gonna be curious about your person. There's gonna be little things that come out. I never encourage. In, at least for your therapist, I don't know how much you want to be Googling your therapist. I had one of my clients and she'll know who she is, but she said, I I'm seeing a new part of you in your podcast and I've yeah.
[00:32:05] I've never seen this part of you and that's, that's, what's gonna be true. I'm putting things out there that I wouldn't be talking about in a therapy session. And so it's gonna impact the more, you know, the less, you're gonna be able to make your therapist, who you need your therapist to be in order for you to change and heal.
[00:32:29] I'm not making it all bad. It's just, you wanna think through, if you are doing some exploration, is it worth it? The book, maybe you should talk to someone she talks about her own Temptation with looking up for therapist and it's delightful.
[00:32:49] So I think it's a great story around kind of the tension that you can live with. If you actually are choosing to look it up or can't help yourself, which of course is understandable. So I hope this has been helpful. Am so grateful for the opportunity to bring my friend Amy in spirit into this conversation and that early on in my career, she opened my. To the variety that was out there in the helping professional and some of it not good, we all get into the helping profession for a reason. And so maybe spirit to spirit or heart to heart that you can see this person is doing their work. Maybe they're only one step ahead of you or maybe they're with you. Right. But they're engaged in their own growth process and that you're not feeling dumped on or that you're not feeling like you're an inconvenience or the person who's helping you it's always feeling stressful, those are all signs. This may not be the best fit for you. So be well, get out in the sunshine. I. That this day is filled with magic until next time.